Sam
Keen: Castaneda Interview. 1976
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аSource: "Seeing Castaneda" (1976)
reprinted from "Psychology Today", 1972.
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ааааааа SAM KEEN: As I followed don Juan through your three books, I suspected, at times,
that he was the creation of Carlos Castaneda.а
He is almost to good to be true--a wise old
Indian whose knowledge of human nature is superior to almost everybody's.
ааааааа CARLOS CASTANEDA: The idea that I
concocted a person like don Juan is
inconceivable.а He is hardly the kind of
figure my European intellectual tradition would have led me to invent. The
truth is much stranger.а I wasn't even
prepared to make the changes in my life that my association with don Juan involved.
ааааааа KEEN: How and where did you meet don Juan and become his apprentice?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I was finishing my
undergraduate study at UCLA and was planning to go to graduate school in
anthropology.а I was interested in
becoming a professor and thought I might begin in the proper way by publishing
a short paper on medicinal plants.а I
couldn't have cared less about finding a weirdo like don
Juan.а I was in a bus depot in
Cult__)
and it might be worth your while to have lunch and talk with me."а Well, he just looked at me and my bravado
melted.а I was absolutely tongue-tied and
numb.а I was usually very aggressive and
verbal so it was a momentous affair to be silenced by a look.а After that I began to visit him and about a
year later he told me he had decided to pass on to me the knowledge of sorcery
he had learned from his teacher.
ааааааа KEEN: Then don
Juan is not an isolated phenomenon.а Is
there a community of sorcerers that shares a secret knowledge?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Certainly.а I know three sorcerers and seven apprentices
and there are many more.а If you read the
history of the Spanish conquest of
ааааааа KEEN: Some of the techniques that
sorcerers use are in wide use in other occult groups.а Persons often use dreams to find lost
articles, and they go on out-of-the-body journeys in their sleep.а But when you told how don
Juan and his friend don Genero made your car
disappear in broad daylight I could only scratch my head.а I know that a hypnotist can create an
illusion of the presence or absence of an object. Do you think you were
hypnotized?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Perhaps, something like
that.а But we have to begin by realizing,
as don Juan says, that there is much more to the world
than we usually acknowledge.а Our normal
expectations about reality are created by a social consensus.а We are taught how to see and understand the
world.а The trick of socialization is to
convince us that the descriptions we agree upon define the limits of the real
world.а What we call reality is only one
way of seeing the world, a way that is supported by a social consensus.
ааааааа KEEN: Then a sorcerer, like a
hypnotist, creates an alternative world by building up different expectations
and manipulating cues to produce a social consensus.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Exactly.а I have come to understand sorcery in terms of
Talcott Parsons' idea of glosses.а A gloss is a total system of perception and
language.а For instance, this room is a
gloss.а We have lumped together a series
of isolated perceptions--floor, ceiling, window, lights, rugs, etc.--to make a
totality.а But we had to be taught to put
the world together in this way.а A child
reconnoiters the world with few preconceptions until he is taught to see things
in a way that corresponds to the descriptions everybody agrees on.а The world is an agreement.а The system of glossing seems to be somewhat
like walking.а We have to learn to walk,
but once we learn we are subject to the syntax of language and the mode of
perception it contains.
ааааааа KEEN: So sorcery, like art, teaches a
new system of glossing. When, for instance, van Gogh
broke with the artistic tradition and painted "The Starry Night" he
was in effect saying: here is a new way of looking at things.а Stars are alive and they whirl around in
their energy field.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Partly.а But there is a difference.а An artist usually just rearranges the old
glosses that are proper to his membership.а
Membership consists of being an expert in the innuendoes of meaning that
are contained within a culture.а For
instance, my primary membership like most educated Western men was in the
European intellectual world.а You can't
break out of one membership without being introduced into another.а You can only rearrange the glosses.
ааааааа KEEN: Was don
Juan resocializing you or desocializing
you? Was he teaching you a new system of meanings or only a method of stripping
off the old system so that you might see the world as a wondering child?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Don Juan and I disagree
about this. аI say he was reglossing me and he says he was deglossing
me.а By teaching me sorcery he gave me a
new set of glosses, a new language and a new way of seeing the world.а Once I read a bit of the linguistic
philosophy of Ludwig Wittgenstein to don Juan and he
laughed and said: "Your friend Wittgenstein tied the noose too tight
around his neck so he can't go anywhere."
ааааааа KEEN: Wittgenstein is one of the few
philosophers who would have understood don Juan.а His notion that there are many different
language games--science, politics, poetry, religion, metaphysics, each with its
own syntax and rules--would have allowed him to understand sorcery as an
alternative system of perception and meaning.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: But don
Juan thinks that what he calls seeing is apprehending the world without any
interpretation; it is pure wondering perception.а Sorcery is a means to this end.а To break the certainty that the world is the
way you have always been taught you must learn a new description of the
world--sorcery--and then hold the old and the new together.а Then you will see that neither description is
final. At that moment you slip between the descriptions; you stop the world and
see.а You are left with wonder; the true
wonder of seeing the world without interpretation.
ааааааа KEEN: Do you think it is possible to
get beyond interpretation by using psychedelic drugs?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I don't think so.а That is my quarrel with people like Timothy
Leary.а I think he was improvising from
within the European membership and merely rearranging old glosses.а I have never taken LSD, but what I gather
from don Juan's teachings is that psychotropics
are used to stop the flow of ordinary interpretations, to enhance the
contradictions within the glosses, and to shatter certainty.а But the drugs alone do not allow you to stop
the world. To do that you need an alternative description of
the world.а That is why don Juan had to teach me sorcery.
ааааааа KEEN: There is an ordinary reality that
we Western people are certain is 'the' only world, and then there is is the separate reality of the sorcerer.а What are the essential differences between
them?
ааааааа Castaneda: In European membership the
world is built largely from what the eyes report to the mind.а In sorcery the total body is used as a perceptor.а As
Europeans we see a world out there and talk to ourselves about it.а We are here and the world is there.а Our eyes feed our reason and we have no
direct knowledge of things.а According to
sorcery this burden on the eyes in unnecessary.а
We know with the total body.
ааааааа KEEN: Western man begins with the
assumption that subject and object are separated.а We're isolated from the world and have to
cross some gap to get to it.а For don Juan and the tradition of sorcery, the body is already
in the world.а We are united with the
world, not alienated from it.
ааааааа Castaneda: That's right.а Sorcery has a different theory of
embodiment.а The problem in sorcery is to
tune and trim your body to make it a good receptor.а Europeans deal with their bodies as if they
were objects.а We fill them with alcohol,
Bad food, and anxiety.а When something
goes wrong we think germs have invaded the body from outside and so we import
some medicine to cure it.а The disease is
not a part of us. аDon Juan doesn't
believe that.а For him disease is a
disharmony between a man and his world.а The
body is an awareness and it must be treated
impeccably.
ааааааа KEEN: This sounds similar to Norman O.
Brown's idea that children, schizophrenics, and those with the divine madness
of the Dionysian consciousness are aware of things and of other persons as
extensions of their bodies.а Don Juan
suggests something of the kind when he says the man of knowledge has fibers of
light that connect his solar plexus to the world.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: My conversation with the
coyote is a good illustration of the different theories of embodiment.а When he came up to me I said: "Hi,
little coyote.а How are you
doing?"а And he answered back:
"I am doing fine.а How about you?"а
Now, I didn't hear the words in the normal way.а But my body knew the coyote was saying
something and I translated it into dialogue.а
As an intellectual my relationship to dialogue is so profound that my
body automatically translated into words the feeling that the animal was
communicating with me.а We always see the
unknown in terms of the known.
ааааааа KEEN: When you are in that magical mode of consciousness in which coyotes speak and everything
is fitting and luminous it seems as if the whole world is alive and that human
beings are in a communion that includes animals and plants.а If we drop our arrogant assumptions that we
are the only comprehending and communicating form of life we might find all
kinds of things talking to us.
ааааааа John Lilly talked talked
to dolphins.а Perhaps we would feel less
alienated if we could believe we were not the only intelligent life.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: We might be able to talk to
any animal.а For don
Juan and the other sorcerers there wasn't anything unusual about my conversation
with the coyote.а As a matter of fact
they said I should have gotten a more reliable animal for a friend.а Coyotes are tricksters and are not to be
trusted.
ааааааа KEEN: What animals make better friends?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Snakes make stupendous friends?
ааааааа KEEN: I once had a conversation with a
snake.а One night I dreamt there was a
snake in the attic of a house where I lived when I was a child.а I took a stick and tried to kill it.а In the morning I told the dream to a friend
and she reminded me that it was not good to kill snakes, even if they were in
the attic in a dream.а She suggested that
the next time a snake appeared in a dream I should feed it or do something to
befriend it.а About an hour later I was
driving my motor scooter on a little-used road and there it was waiting for
me--a four foot snake, stretched out sunning itself.а I drove alongside it and it didn't move.а After we had looked at each other for a while
I decided I should make some gesture to let him know I repented for killing his
brother in my dream.а I reached over and
touched his tail.а He coiled up and
indicated that I had rushed our intimacy.а
So I backed off and just looked.а
After about five minutes he went off into the bushes.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: You didn't pick it up?
ааааааа KEEN: No.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: It was a very good
friend.а A man can learn to call
snakes.а But you have to be in very good
shape, calm, collected--in a friendly mood, with no doubts or pending affairs.
ааааааа KEEN: My snake taught me that I had
always had paranoid feelings about nature.а
I considered animals and snakes dangerous. After my meeting I could
never kill another snake and it began to be more plausible to me that we might
be in some kind of living nexus.
ааааааа Our ecosystem might well include
communication between different forms of life.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Don Juan has a very
interesting theory about this. Plants, like animals, always affect you.а He says that if you don't apologize to plants
for picking them you are likely to get sick or have an accident.
ааааааа KEEN: The American Indians had similar
beliefs about animals they killed.а If
you don't thank the animal for giving up his life so you may live, his spirit
may cause you trouble.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: We have a commonality with
all life.а Something is altered every
time we deliberately injure plant life or animal life. We take life in order to
live but we must be willing to give up our lives without resentment when it is
our time.а We are so important and take
ourselves so seriously that we forget that the world is a great mystery that
will teach us if we listen.
ааааааа KEEN: Perhaps psychotropic drugs
momentarily wipe out the isolated ego and allow a mystical fusion with
nature.а Most cultures that have retained
a sense of communion between man and nature also have made ceremonial use of
psychedelic drugs.а Were you using peyote
when you talked with the coyote?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: No.а Nothing at all.
ааааааа KEEN: Was this experience more intense
than similar experiences you had when don Juan gave
you psychotropic plants?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Much more intense.а Every time I took psychotropic plants I knew
I had taken something and I could always question the validity of my
experience.а But when the coyote talked
to me I had no defenses.а I couldn't
explain it away.а I had really stopped
the world and, for a short time, got completely outside my European system of
glossing.
ааааааа KEEN: Do you think don
Juan lives in this state of awareness most of the time?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Yes.а He lives in magical time and occasionally
comes into ordinary time.а I live in ordinary
time and occasionally dip into magical time.
ааааааа KEEN: Anyone who travels so far from
the beaten paths of consensus must be very lonely.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I think so.а Don Juan lives in an awesome world and he has
left routine people far behind.а Once
when I was with don Juan and his friend don Genaro I saw the loneliness they shared and their sadness
at leaving behind the trappings and points of reference of ordinary
society.а I think don
Juan turns his loneliness into art.а He
contains and controls his power, the wonder and the loneliness, and turns them
into art.
ааааааа His art is the metaphorical way in
which he lives.а This is why his
teachings have such a dramatic flavor and unity.а He deliberately constructs his life and his
manner of teaching.
ааааааа KEEN: For instance, when don Juan took you out into the hills to hunt animals was he
consciously staging an allegory?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Yes.а He had no interest in hunting for sport or to
get meat.а In the 10 years I have known
him don Juan has killed only four animals to my
knowledge, and these only at times when he saw that their death was a gift to
him in the same way his death would one day be a gift to something.а Once we caught a rabbit in a trap we had set
and don Juan thought I should kill it because its time
was up.а I was desperate because I had
the sensation that I was the rabbit.а I
tried to free him but couldn't open the trap.а
So I stomped on the trap and accidentally broke the rabbit's neck.а Don Juan had been trying to teach me that I
must assume responsibility for being in this marvelous world.а He leaned over and whispered in my ear:
"I told you this rabbit had no more time to roam in this beautiful
desert."а He consciously set up the
metaphor to teach me about the ways of a warrior.а The warrior is a man who hunts and
accumulates personal power.а To do this
he must develop patience and will and move deliberately through the world.а Don Juan used the dramatic situation of
actual hunting to teach me because he was addressing himself to my body.
ааааааа KEEN: In your most recent book,
__Journey to Ixtlan__, you reverse the impression
given in your first books that the use of psychotropic plants was the main
method don Juan intended to use in teaching you about
sorcery.а How do you now understand the
place of psychotropics in his teachings?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Don Juan used psychotropic
plants only in the middle period of my apprenticeship because I was so stupid,
sophisticated and cocky.а I held on to my
description of the world as if it were the only truth.а Psychotropics
created a gap in my system of glosses.а
They destroyed my dogmatic certainty.а
But I paid a tremendous price.а
When the glue that held my world together was dissolved, my body was
weakened and it took months to recuperate.а
I was anxious and functioned at a very low level.
ааааааа KEEN: Does don
Juan regularly use psychotropic drugs to stop the world?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: No.а He can now stop it at will.а He told me that for me to try to see without
the aid of psychotropic plants would be useless.а But if I behaved like a warrior and assumed
responsibility I would not need them; they would only weaken my body.
ааааааа KEEN: This must come as quite a shock
to many of your admirers.а You are
something of a patron saint to the psychedelic revolution.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I do have a following and
they have some strange ideas about me.а I
was walking to a lecture I was giving at
ааааааа KEEN: Mystical feet?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Yes, that I walk barefooted
like Jesus and have no callouses.а I am supposed to be stoned most of the
time.а I have also committed suicide and
died in several different places.
ааааааа A college class of mine almost freaked
out when I began to talk about phenomenology and membership and to explore
perception and socialization.а They
wanted to be told too relax, turn on and blow their minds.а But to me understanding is important.
ааааааа KEEN: Rumors flourish in an information
vacuum.а We know something about don Juan but too little about Castaneda.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: That is a deliberate part of
the life of a warrior, To weasel in and out of
different worlds you have to remain inconspicuous.а The more you are known and identified, the
more your freedom is curtailed.а When
people have definite ideas about who you are and how you will act, then you
can't move.а One of the earliest things don Juan taught me was that I must erase my personal
history. If little by little you create a fog around yourself then you will not
be taken for granted and you will have more room for change.а That is the reason I avoid tape recordings
when I lecture, and photographs.
ааааааа KEEN: Maybe we can be personal without
being historical.а You now minimize the
importance of the psychedelic experience connected with your
apprenticeship.а And you don't seem to go
around doing the kind of tricks you describe as the sorcerer's
stock-in-trade.а What are the elements of
don Juan's teachings that are important for you? Have
you been changed by them?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: For me the ideas of being a
warrior and a man of knowledge, with the eventual hope of being able to stop
the world and see, have been the most applicable.а They have given me peace and confidence in my
ability to control my life.а At the time
I met don Juan I had very little personal power.а My life had been very erratic.а I had come a long way from my birthplace in
ааааааа I don't think there is any other way to
live if one wants to be exuberant.
ааааааа KEEN: He seems to have hooked you with
the old philosopher's trick of holding death before your eyes.а I was struck with how classical don Juan's approach was.а
I heard echoes of Plato's idea that a philosopher must study death
before he can gain any access to the real world and of Martin Heidegger's definition of man as being-toward-death.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Yes, but don Juan's approach
has a strange twist because it comes from the tradition in sorcery that death
is physical presence that can be felt and seen.а
One of the glosses in sorcery is: death stands to your left.а Death is an impartial judge who will speak
truth to you and give you accurate advice.а
After all, death is in no hurry.а
He will get you tomorrow or the next week or in 50 years.а It makes no difference to him.а The moment you remember you must eventually
die you are cut down to the right size.
ааааааа I think I haven't made this idea vivid
enough.а The gloss--"death to your
left"--isn't an intellectual matter in sorcery; it is perception.а When your body is properly tuned to the world
and you turn your eyes to your left, you can witness an extraordinary event,
the shadowlike presence of death.
ааааааа KEEN: In the existential tradition,
discussions of responsibility usually follow discussion of death.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Then don
Juan is a good existentialist.а When
there is no way of knowing whether I have one more minute
of life.а I must live as if this is my
last moment.а Each act is the warrior's
last battle.а So everything must be done
impeccably.а Nothing can be left
pending.а This idea has been very freeing
for me.а I am here talking to you and I
may never return to
ааааааа KEEN: This world of death and
decisiveness is a long way from psychedelic utopias in which the vision of
endless time destroys the tragic quality of choice.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: When death stands to your
left you must create your world by a series of decisions.а There are no large or small decisions, only
decisions that must be made now.
ааааааа And there is no time for doubts or
remorse.а If I spend my time regretting
what I did yesterday I avoid the decisions I need to make today.
ааааааа KEEN: How did don
Juan teach you to be decisive?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: He spoke to my body with his
acts.а My old way was to leave everything
pending and never to decide anything.а To
me decisions were ugly.а It seemed unfair
for a sensitive man to have to decide.а One
day don Juan asked me: "Do you think you and I
are equals?" I was a university student and an intellectual and he was an
old Indian but I condescended and said: "Of course we are equals." He
said: "I don't think we are.а I am a hunter and a warrior and you are a
pimp.а I am ready to sum up my life at
any moment.а Your feeble world of indecision
and sadness is not equal to mine."а Well,
I was very insulted and would have left but we were in the middle of the
wilderness.а So I sat down and got
trapped in my own ego involvement. I was going to wait until he decided to go
home.а After many hours I saw that don Juan would stay there forever if he had to.а Why not? For a man with no pending business
that is his power.а I finally realized
that this man was not like my father who would make 20 New Year's resolutions
and cancel them all out.а Don Juan's
decisions were irrevocable as far as he was concerned.а They could be canceled out only by other
decisions.а So I went over and touched
him and he got up and we went home.а The
impact of that act was tremendous.а It
convinced me that the way of the warrior is an exuberant and powerful way to
live.
ааааааа KEEN: It isn't the content of decision
that is important so much as the act of being decisive.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: That is what don Juan means by having a gesture.а A gesture is a deliberate act which is
undertaken for the power that comes from making a decision.а For instance, if a warrior found a snake that
was numb and cold, he might struggle to invent a way to take the snake to a
warm place without being bitten.а The
warrior would make the gesture just for the hell of it.а But he would perform it perfectly.
ааааааа KEEN: There seem to be many parallels
between existential philosophy and don Juan's
teachings.а What you have said about
decision and gesture suggests that don Juan, like
Nietzsche or Sartre, believes that will rather than reason is the most
fundamental faculty of man.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I think that is right.а Let me speak for myself. What I want to do,
and maybe I can accomplish it, is to take the control away from my reason.а My mind has been in control all of my life
and it would kill me rather than relinquish control.а At one point in my apprenticeship I became
profoundly depressed. I was overwhelmed with terror and gloom and thoughts
about suicide.а Then don
Juan warned me this was one of reason's tricks to retain control.а He said my reason was making my body feel
that there was no meaning in life. Once my mind waged this last battle and
lost, reason began to assume its proper place as a tool of the body.
ааааааа KEEN: "The heart has its reasons
that reason knows nothing of" and so does the rest of the body.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: That is the point.а The body has a will of its own.а Or rather, the will is the voice of the
body.а That is why don
Juan consistently put his teachings in dramatic form.а My intellect could easily dismiss his world
of sorcery as nonsense.а But my body was
attracted to his world and his way of life.а
And once the body took over, a new and healthier reign was established.
ааааааа KEEN: Don Juan's techniques for dealing
with dreams engaged me became they suggest the possibility of voluntary control
of dream images.а It is as though he
proposes to establish a permanent, stable observatory within inner space.а Tell me about don
Juan's dream training.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: The trick in dreaming is to
sustain dream images long enough to look at them carefully.а To gain this kind of control you need to pick
one thing in advance and learn to find it in your dreams.а Don Juan suggested that I use my hands as a
steady point and go back and forth between them and the images.а After some months I learned to find my hands
and to stop the dream.а I became so
fascinated with the technique that I could hardly wait to go to sleep.
ааааааа KEEN: Is stopping the images in dreams
anything like stopping the world?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: It is similar.а But there are differences.а Once you are capable of finding your hands at
will, you realize that it is only a technique.а
What you are after is control.а A
man of knowledge must accumulate personal power.а But that is not enough to stop the
world.а Some abandon also is
necessary.а You must silence the chatter
that is going on inside your mind and surrender yourself to the outside world.
ааааааа KEEN: Of the many techniques that don Juan taught you for stopping the world, which do you
still practice?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: My major discipline now is
to disrupt my routines. I was always a very routinary
person.а I ate and slept on schedule. In
1965 I began to change my habits.а I
wrote in the quiet hours of the night and slept and ate when I felt the neeed.а Now I have
dismantled so many of my habitual ways of acting that before long I may become
unpredictable and surprising even to myself.
ааааааа KEEN: Your discipline reminds me of the
Zen story of two disciples bragging about miraculous powers.а One disciple claimed the founder of the sect
to which he belonged could stand on one side of a river and write the name of
Buddha on a piece of paper held by his assistant on the opposite shore.а The second disciple replied that such a
miracle was unimpressive. "My miracle," he said, "is that when I
feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink"
ааааааа CASTANEDA: It has been this element of
engagement in the world that has kept me following the path which don Juan showed me.а There
is no need to transcend the world.а
Everything we need to know is right in front of us, if we pay
attention.а If you enter a state of nonordinary reality, as you do when you use psychotropic
plants, it is only to draw back from it what you need in order to see the
miraculous character of ordinary reality.а
For me the way to live--the path with heart--is not introspection or
mystical transcendence but presence in the world.а This world is the warrior's hunting ground.
ааааааа KEEN: The world you and don Juan have pictured is full of magical coyotes, enchanted
crows and a beautiful sorceress.а It's
easy to see how it could engage you.а But what about the world of the modern urban person?а Where is the magic there?а If we could all live in the mountains we
might keep wonder alive.а But how is it
possible when we are half a zoom from the freeway?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I once asked don Juan the same question.а
We were sitting in a cafe in
ааааааа KEEN: The noise level and the constant
pressure of the masses of people seem to destroy the silence and solitude that
would be essential for stopping the world.
ааааааа CASTANEDA: Not at all.а In fact, the noise can be used.а You can use the buzzing of the freeway to
teach yourself to listen to the outside world.а
When we stop the world the world we stop is the one we usually maintain
by our continual inner dialogue.а Once
you can stop the internal babble you stop maintaining your old world.а The descriptions collapse.а That is when personality change begins.а When you concentrate on sounds you realize it
is difficult for the brain to categories all the sounds, and in a short while
you stop trying.а This is unlike visual
perception which keeps us forming categories and thinking.а It is so restful when you can turn off the
talking, categorizing, and judging.
ааааааа KEEN: The internal world changes but
what about the external one?а We can
revolutionize individual consciousness but still not touch the social
structures that create our alienation.а Is
there any place for social or political reform in your thinking?
ааааааа CASTANEDA: I came from
ааааааа Don Juan and I were in
doesn't like his own." Our first concern
should be with ourselves.а I can like my
fellow men only when I am at my peak of vigor and am not depressed.а To be in this condition I must keep my body
trimmed.а Any revolution must begin here
in this body.а I can alter my culture but
only from within a body that is impeccably tuned-in to this weird world.а For me, the real accomplishment is the art of
being a warrior, which, as don Juan says, is the only
way to balance the terror of being a man with the wonder of being a man.